Curse

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 18, 2011, 01:18 AM // 01:18

The wiki said this:

In an update next week, we will address some PvP issues...

So, all of the updates seem to be for PvP.

gremlin · Mar 18, 2011, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Little puzzled by the necro changes they are slight tweaks that basically reduce the effectiveness of a few skills.

Trouble is I never thought any of those skills overpowered or even overused.
Must have been a pvp issue I guess.

Ritualist consume soul was the most interesting change for me it will work both for and against players which is good.

Kunder · Mar 18, 2011, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Eles lacking AP don't really have any non-elite skills to spam though. An air ele will have no difficulty hitting it on recharge. The lower recharge will also proc Battle Standard more which you ought to be using for elemental damage anyway.

Chain Lightning/Invoke Lightning/Blinding Flash alone takes 6+ seconds to get a cycle off, and surely there is at least ONE other skill you want to be casting every so often. But Ele damage in PvE is already shit, and no matter how you try to make a nuker build out of them it will always be shit. ER spamming stuff from other classes is the only effective PvE build they can run.

Its definitely a good change for PvP, though. Just goes to show the massive mechanic difference between PvE and PvP. If PvE was overhauled to conform to standard armor levels and a more reasonable health/damage progression you could unsplit 80% of the PvP/PvE split skills along with remove every PvE skill from the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Little puzzled by the necro changes they are slight tweaks that basically reduce the effectiveness of a few skills.

Trouble is I never thought any of those skills overpowered or even overused.
Must have been a pvp issue I guess.

Ritualist consume soul was the most interesting change for me it will work both for and against players which is good.

This update is pretty much all about PvP. The difference is that PvE doesn't have 2+ healers per group whose energy you have to slowly overcome. That's most of the battle of PvP, making your enemy monk's energy going down faster than yours. This means that interruptions/degen/conditions are 10x more powerful because their effects all add up after several minutes of battle. In PvE, you just care about spitting out spike damage to kill groups in <10 seconds, preferably AoE damage because monsters are stupid and will stand in it while you nuke them.

Khomet Si Netjer · Mar 18, 2011, 01:25 AM // 01:25

my first impressions:

mesmer skill cost reduction: long overdue

elementalist attunement changes: long overdue
invoke lightning nerf: kicking the ele when he's already down. Searing Flames, Savannah, Sandstorm, Unsteady Ground and Bsurge are already much better for general use. The non-elite Chain Lightning is just as good as this except for 1s longer cast time.

necromancer: arguably the strongest profession in the game, so no one will cry if they get nerfs, but this version of Signet of Suffering is just terrible. The non elite skills Barbed Signet and Oppressive Gaze completely own it. Compare to another condition causing elite, Virulence.

ritualist: Consume Soul had its one niche use against Mallyx, looks like its one use is gone now. For an elite skill you'd think that it would do damage to all nearby creatures of any type instead of just summoned creatures. This version should be a lot more useful against spirit spammers (HA?) but I can't see it being used much in general.

dervish: OMG dervish is good now, and we can't allow that. warriors feel second class. QQ

but most importantly... where is the love for paragons, rangers, and smite monks? We have been waiting since May 2010.

ogre_jd · Mar 18, 2011, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooeydark

I think everyone here needs to keep in mind that this skill update was centered more for PvP than PvE.

Invoke Lightning was a powerful spike skill that dealt an incredible amount of damage for only 10 energy, a relatively short recharge, and had a negligible drawback. If this change to Invoke affects PvE greatly, then maybe they should make it split (unless of course there were balance issues with Invoke in PvE as well as PvP).

Before: Invoke Lighting -1s cast, +2s recharge, +15 dam over Chain Lighting.
Now: Invoke Lightning -1s cast, +0s recharge, +5 dam over Chain Lightning.

Was barely worthy of its Elite status before (compared to the non-Elite). Now it's definitely not worth its Elite status.

Dzjudz · Mar 18, 2011, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

The wiki said this:

In an update next week, we will address some PvP issues...

So, all of the updates seem to be for PvP.

That statement does not mean that all skills they change will be changed only for PvP (and split if necessary). It means they are implementing skill changes as a result of PvP issues (imbalances). These skill changes mostly affect both PvP and PvE. Only Fevered Dreams and a couple of Necro skills are changed in PvP only.

MithranArkanere · Mar 18, 2011, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Well, the thing I like the most are the changes in the attunements.

BrettM · Mar 18, 2011, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

This version should be a lot more useful against spirit spammers (HA?) but I can't see it being used much in general.

The revised Consume Soul might have some uses against all the WiK spirit spammers and minon masters. I could see finding a place for it on a 7h team.

Kunder · Mar 18, 2011, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

That statement does not mean that all skills they change will be changed only for PvP (and split if necessary). It means they are implementing skill changes as a result of PvP issues (imbalances). These skill changes mostly affect both PvP and PvE. Only Fevered Dreams and a couple of Necro skills are changed in PvP only.

To be fair, most of the changes won't affect PvE much if at all.

Derv: Heart of Fury is -2 seconds. How will I ever get 4 adrenaline within 10 seconds with a weapon that hits 3 enemies and PvE enemies dumb enough to stand still while I do it? Other skills are of negligible usage
Ele: People used them for damage in PvE? lol ok. Attunement changes are nice for all the other eles running better damage builds in NM.
Mes: FD is split, everything else is meh because you wouldn't use it anyway.
Nec: -2 energy on Angorodon's Gaze. Not gonna do much. Tell me when they nerf soul reaping again and I'll QQ along with everyone else.
Rit: Consume soul was only good for Mallyx anyways, not going to matter a ton. But it will definitely be interesting to see a few more anti-MM (also known as the win PvE build) roadblocks. I'll have to see how many enemies actually use it, but I don't think its enough to make a big difference.

Quote:

Before: Invoke Lighting -1s cast, +2s recharge, +15 dam over Chain Lighting.
Now: Invoke Lightning -1s cast, +0s recharge, +5 dam over Chain Lightning.

Was barely worthy of its Elite status before (compared to the non-Elite). Now it's definitely not worth its Elite status.

In PvP 1/2 cast time was godly for spike characters and made it worth the elite. 2s cast on a spike is so useless that you might as well not run it. As has been mentioned, PvE != PvP.

gremlin · Mar 18, 2011, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

The revised Consume Soul might have some uses against all the WiK spirit spammers and minon masters. I could see finding a place for it on a 7h team.

I was thinking it might be useful against Duncan the Black.
Not gone up against him myself but am told he spawns a large amount of spirits and can keep doing it.

Xenomortis · Mar 18, 2011, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndroBubbles

Signet of suffering will probably see little to no use in competitive play; the players won't sacrifice an elite just to get bleeding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

barbed signet should be doing what signet of suffering is doing, and vice versa.

Oh ok we're just gonna believe you cause you're modsquad and don't have to, ya know, feel obligated to explain your illogical one-liners.

Crippling Anguish isn't why Necs are being used in GvG.
The loss of the free elite hurts, but I doubt it'll push Necs completely out of play.

I'm not sure why they just don't increase the cast time on Invoke back to two seconds.

Dervs still get IAS+IMS with no real drawback.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

If PvE was overhauled to conform to standard armor levels and a more reasonable health/damage progression you could unsplit 80% of the PvP/PvE split skills along with remove every PvE skill from the game.

You could do that now, without the overhaul.
It would just make the game a bit harder.

Aeon221 · Mar 18, 2011, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Crippling Anguish isn't why Necs are being used in GvG.
The loss of the free elite hurts, but I doubt it'll push Necs completely out of play.

I'm not sure why they just don't increase the cast time on Invoke back to two seconds.

Dervs still get IAS+IMS with no real drawback.

You could do that now, without the overhaul.
It would just make the game a bit harder.

If they dropped the armor of mobs back to normal, and massively increased their health (figure increase the hp by a quarter for each 20al a mob loses), it'd probably do wonders for HM PVE in general. No more spiking things out with armor ignoring damage, much more actual fighting against the mobs and a much better chance for classes that take longer to matter to get into the fray.

Would nerf the crap out of degen based builds, but since no one really uses degen anyway it's not a big deal.

LordDragon · Mar 18, 2011, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Consume Soul is going to be interesting when the creature that uses it is surrounded by Death Nova Minions. BOOM! dead.

Xenomortis · Mar 18, 2011, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

If they dropped the armor of mobs back to normal, and massively increased their health (figure increase the hp by a quarter for each 20al a mob loses), it'd probably do wonders for HM PVE in general. No more spiking things out with armor ignoring damage, much more actual fighting against the mobs and a much better chance for classes that take longer to matter to get into the fray.

Would nerf the crap out of degen based builds, but since no one really uses degen anyway it's not a big deal.

I wasn't contesting any of that; I didn't even argue on anything related to that.
And degen builds would be unaffected; other options merely improve.

Edit: I don't get the CS change either. Since it's elite, was it really that bad if it hard countered a Rit's spirits (especially since the Nec has lost its free elite)?

UnChosen · Mar 18, 2011, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

You could do that now, without the overhaul.
It would just make the game a bit harder.

I rather not have my dungeon runs take 2x longer with heroes and 4x longer with pugs. There is something called real life.

Quote:

Invoke Lightning: decreased damage to 10...74...90; decreased recharge to 6 seconds.

"Bring Buh!"
"Bring Intensity"
"Use Invoke"

Its funny how after posts after posts about Ele's damage in HM...that Ele managed to have all of their options nerfed in less than a month...lol.

Wait...There's still one left
"Bring EBSOH!"

Countdown till nerf.

X Dr Pepper X · Mar 18, 2011, 02:31 AM // 02:31

It all seems well and straight forward.

I hope these include mentions for plans about the next planned batch of GW1 content whether it be PvE, PvP, Profession update overhauls, or GW: Beyond.

Karate Jesus · Mar 18, 2011, 02:46 AM // 02:46

I'm surprised it took them this long to nerf the dervish buffs, honestly. I heard they won't be split, either.

And what's with Barbed Signet being elite and Sig of Suffering being non-elite? Obviously, Sig of Suffering will be used in the GvG blood bar instead of the random utility elite, but outside of that build it's pretty pointless.

Also, the new Barbed makes me want to scream FRAAAAAGSPIIIIIIIKE.

JSX · Mar 18, 2011, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Also, the new Barbed makes me want to scream FRAAAAAGSPIIIIIIIKE.

haha i thought that too,

and nice that dervs are getting toned down abit (though why for pve too? who cares about pve) , the attune change is nice and mes changes are great. Though the invoke leaves me puzzled.

NerfHerder · Mar 18, 2011, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

It all seems well and straight forward.

I hope these include mentions for plans about the next planned batch of GW1 content whether it be PvE, PvP, Profession update overhauls, or GW: Beyond.

^^This.

I am glad PvP is getting some attention, but news about more dramatic skill and content updates is what I'm looking for.

Chthon · Mar 18, 2011, 03:09 AM // 03:09

1. Grenth's Aura is not addressed. It's a bigger problem than Avatar of Grenth.

2. Heart of Fury nerf is too big.

3. Invoke nerf should be split. (E/Mo healers aside,) PvE eles are already weak as hell in HM, and Invoke was one of the few skills that was at least mediocre.

4. Combined Blood nerfs are a bit too much damage on the energy management. I'd leave one of the skills intact, probably AGaze.

5. Signet of Suffering would not be worthy of elite status as proposed.

6. Consume Soul should be split because of its importance in PvE, specifically Mallyx.